Abortion. Is it justifiable that
10/10/08 18:54
10/10/08 16:19
i think it should be made legal in NI.
10/10/08 15:31
Have only got a moment, but have to say that abortion IS a human rights issue. Wether you see it as the human right of a woman to decide wether or not to terminate an unborn child, or wether you see it as a human right of an unborn child to NOT be terminated.
Also ethics does not HAVE to be influenced by religion. The concept of ethics was created by philosophers and was - and is - entirely distinct from religion. Think of the human right to not be detained without reason - what's religious about that? Or the human right to not be discriminated against on the basis of sex, race, age, health - there is nothing religious in giving people these rights.
Ethics and religion are different things completely. Of course human rights laws could be decided with religious points of view in mind, but these would not then be ethical laws, they would be moral ones.
10/10/08 13:32
Its not just people with a faith, but also people WITHOUT a faith whose world view and view of ethics is affected by what they do or don't believe.
If we were to eliminate personal opinion from politics, no politicians would be able to vote on anything like this as its totally impossible to separate personal opinions/conscience from these things - which is why they allow free votes on such issues rather than demanding MPs toe the party line.
10/10/08 10:56
Religion affects ethical views. Its impossible to hold religious views and it NOT affect your ethical/philosophical view point.
I know what you mean DR, i just think that when doing a job you have to put your viewpoint to the side sometimes. If you are unable to do your job without bias maybe its not the job for you. Sometimes i think others need to step in, otherwise where would it end. Youre not going to serve someone in a shop as you dont like their hair colour.
10/10/08 10:33
Yes, unfortunately thats life. Numpty politicians get to make decisions for us. There is some issues they put to reforendum but the cost and hassle of this is rarely worthwhile. Is it not the main protestant party in NI that is the most against this?
10/10/08 10:07
Of course it is justified. Or by that same token you could say that why should social abortion be legal in England when it's illegal in N Ireland. It works both ways. Every country should be free to make their own laws based on their own judgement and morals. There will never be universal conformity as even WITHIN England you get people strongly on either side of the fence.
10/10/08 09:38
When people make reference to "other countries" in terms of their abortion laws, I think they often forget that while most other western developed countries do allow social abortions, the vast majority of them have MUCH stricter laws on abortion than the UK does - in most of mainland europe, social abortions after 12-14weeks are illegal, nothing like the 24 week limit in England, Wales and Scotland.
If people are going to go down the route of saying its a human rights issue to have access to abortion, and refer to the rest of europe for support in saying that most countries allow abortion (and therefore so should every other country) they need to remember that most of those countries are actually far stricter on how late abortion is allowed in those countries - and therefore its not really a very good argument for saying that all countries should have similar abortion laws, unless you think that the UK should have reduced our own abortion limit to 12 weeks too...
10/10/08 09:22
I agree with Dr's last post. Also, there are plenty of other countries around the world where abortion is illegal too.
Not sure on this one, but is it illegal in some states in the US? I may be way off wrongSoctland does loads of things differntly to England, Wales and Ireland. Some I agree with, some I don't but I live here and those are the laws
10/10/08 09:20
I'm against abortion, however I do feel if it's ok in some of the UK then it should be ok in all of the UK. It's like certain medications and treatments only being available in certain places, it's wrong. We are the UNITED Kingdom, yet on these basic things we are far from united. The laws and medical treatments should be the same.
Sorry, but this view shows a lack of understanding of the history of the 4 countries within the UK. We may be united under one monarch, and we may have some central government as a result, but England and Scotland have NEVER had the same laws/legal system and I don't think that being part of a united Kingdom should mean that the three smaller, less-populated countries should automatically be over-ruled by the consensus opinion in the larger country (England) - did you know that England has 529 MPs, yet Wales, Scotland and NI only have a total of 117 between them??? If all decisions were made centrally (in England, by a mainly English Parliament) the people of the smaller countries won't be given a fair chance to decide how their own country of the UK is ruled/governed.
There are already differences between the countries in the healthcare offered, and in the legal systems. And its rare that anyone has any objections to the differences or thinks it "unfair" that one area of the UK has different laws to another. Scotland, for example, has totally different sunday trading laws to the rest of the UK.
Abortion isn't an "access to health care" issue. It is an issue with MASSIVE ethical implications.
10/10/08 09:08
i wonder how many girls have been permanently effected or injured or killed as a result of illegal abortions, back street abortions are NEVER a good idea - better to have it in a safe clean environment with someone who knows what they're doing - whether i personally agree with it or not
10/10/08 09:06
Religion affects ethical views. Its impossible to hold religious views and it NOT affect your ethical/philosophical view point.
And I don't agree that access to abortion is a human rights issue. Many people in the UK may see access to abortion as important, but its not a human right.
9/10/08 23:08
*judgement*
9/10/08 23:07
I think under the nhs a doctor has a duty of care to a patient. If a doctor refuses to treat someone it is putting an unneccessary judgemant on that patient.
9/10/08 23:03
Well, I think DR was right though, religion is in politics like it or not, because politics consists of individuals with sometimes dubious consciences and sometimes dubious religious views. That's just life. And some countries wouldn't have it any other way.
But if human rights are universally accepted as law, then it's not so important.
I think a doctor has a human right to refuse to offer treatment for whatever reason he sees fit. I think a patient in a country that offers free healthcare, or in one where he has payed for healthcare, has a right to be treated, whatever the cause or nature of his illness. So there's no contradiction or issue, the doctore can still follow his religion and stay "clean" or whatever, and the patient can still get treated - by another doctor.
Fortunately in the UK at least the population is so diverse that both rights can be respected.
9/10/08 23:02
oh, see i am tired
Biddli you were referring to abortion as a medical issue.
9/10/08 23:01
I agree medications should be availible all over or nowhere at all, afterall we all pay taxes. Not so sure about the laws thing as i agree we vote different politicians so should have a bit of devolution. Just think that abortion is such a big issue, a human rights issue, I dont see how all politicians can group together and refuse. Im against abortion also.
9/10/08 23:00
Not sure on this one i agree it seems unfair but that is the law of the country they live in, i would hate it if we all had the same laws across the uk to be honest we are still individual countries.
9/10/08 22:57
I'm against abortion, however I do feel if it's ok in some of the UK then it should be ok in all of the UK. It's like certain medications and treatments only being available in certain places, it's wrong. We are the UNITED Kingdom, yet on these basic things we are far from united. The laws and medical treatments should be the same.
9/10/08 22:55
So am I
Just that sometimes religion and politics have to be separate, as much as is possible.
I agree JM. So, the question is, should abortion be allowed at all? If a government cannot help but be influenced by religion or personal beliefs, how can they make ANY law?
On the other hand, why should joe blogs be banned from this (imo) right just because the elected government have a religious agenda?
I beleive it should be legal, but controlled... however, some could argue that thats an insult to those against it, and unfair to those who support it.
Also, who's human right is it? Some people believe human rights should start at conception, others believe that the mother's right rules until the baby is born.
I don't know the right answer tbh. Only my opinion.